Introduction

1This interview aimed to explore the personal and professional journey of teacher Aurélia Hermínia Castiglioni. At the same time, considering the significance of historical moments in shaping thoughts, actions, and knowledge production, the interview was viewed as an excellent opportunity to discuss relevant themes of the present. The aim was to comprehend how these themes manifested a few decades ago during the teacher’s training and early career.

2To this end, this team, composed of the authors of the interview, was gathered to discuss and elaborate questions that would allow achieving the objectives, considering the relevant role of its performance in recent decades in the Department of Geography, in the Graduate Program in Geography and in other instances of the Federal University of Espírito Santo (UFES). From a trajectory perspective, questions were prepared that touched on topics such as the influence of being a woman on the educational and professional process and, in relation to his experience as a teacher and researcher, the influence of criticism towards quantitative studies in geography throughout his career. The interview was conducted using a semi-structured questionnaire that had been sent to the interviewee beforehand. It was conducted by Professor Ednelson Mariano Dota, with the team providing additional input at appropriate moments.

3We met on October 25, 2023, on a rainy afternoon in Vitória for the interview. We chose a welcoming environment where she would feel comfortable, a classroom in one of the graduate blocks of the UFES Human and Natural Science Center. Along with her belongings, Aurélia brought notes and information to complement the answers she had prepared in advance. The interview lasted two hours.

4The care and prior preparation of the answers are consistent with what is observed of the teacher in the daily activities of the Graduate Program in Geography (PPGG) at UFES. Upon concluding her teaching activities in the Geography undergraduate program in 2014, the professor has remained actively engaged in the Master and Doctoral Geography Graduate Programs (PPGG), where she conducts research, teaches courses, supervises master’s and doctoral students, and contributes to administrative tasks since then.

5Aurélia made significant contributions throughout her professional career in all the areas where she worked. She conducted groundbreaking research in the field of migration, with reference to her dissertation (Internal Migrations in Brazil, 1984) and thesis (Migration, Urbanization, and Development: the case of Espírito Santo, 1989), completed at the Université Catholique de Louvain, in Belgium. It should be noted that this was at a time when there were few studies on these topics in Brazil. In the 2000s, she made a significant contribution to the study of historical international migrations in Espírito Santo, particularly focusing on Italians.

6Despite the more evident focus on internal and international migration, her work also addresses themes such as aging, social indicators, and reflections on the transitions that have characterized the territorial transformations in Brazil throughout the twentieth century, particularly demographic and urban changes.

7In the analysis of the professional journey of teacher Aurélia, the tangible elements are easily identified. Until February 2024, she supervised 8 theses and 14 dissertations, with one in progress. Additionally, she oversaw 16 graduation course papers, and 10 undergraduate research in fields like Economics, Statistics, and Medicine, as well as Geography her native department. She also published 16 articles in journals, 4 books and 12 book chapters.

8Regarding intangible facets, whose quantification poses challenges yet holds considerable significance, their contribution proved notably substantial. Aurélia assumes a pivotal role within Espírito Santo owing to the extensive human resource training outlined in the guidelines. She adeptly educates professionals engaged in public administration and academia, as educators and researchers, thereby actively shaping the internal dynamics of the university.

9It is noteworthy that the establishment of the Federal University of Espírito Santo occurred on May 5, 1954. Presently, the university boasts four campuses situated in Goiabeiras and Maruípe, Vitória; in the municipalities of Alegre, located in the southern region of the state; and São Mateus, situated in the northern reaches of Espírito Santo (https://www.ufes.br).

10More specifically, the Bachelor’s and Degree courses in Geography were implemented in 1955 and 1956, respectively. The Master Program for graduate students began in 2008, offering the Academic Master’s Degree in Geography. It was coordinated by Professor Aurélia Hermínia Castiglioni and Deputy Coordinator Cláudio Luiz Zanotelli during the establishment period from 2008 to 2011. The Doctorate program in Geography was established later, in 2015 (https://geografia.ufes.br).

11In her capacity within management, she played a pivotal role in bolstering research endeavors and educator preparation by assuming administrative roles geared towards fostering the enhancement of university faculty and managerial staff, particularly during a time when advanced-level training was a rarity. In addition to these periods, Aurélia held the position of Pro-Rector of Graduate Studies at UFES between 1996 and 2000. Later, she was the coordinator of the Graduate Program in Geography from 2007 to 2011.

12Furthermore, within her managerial role, her involvement in the « Study of the feasibility of implementing night courses at the UFES General Studies Center » is particularly notable. This document was a milestone in the expansion process of the Center for General Studies, currently known as the Center for Human and Natural Sciences (CCHN - Borgo, 2014), the university’s largest center. As underscored by Dota (2023a), the professor’s endeavors have « paved the way » for indirectly facilitating research in Population Geography within the Department of Geography at UFES. Such an approach is infrequently explored within graduate programs in geography in Brazil, owing to the historical trajectory of Geography as a scientific discipline (Dota, 2023b).

13The interview provides a comprehensive overview, of her childhood in Itapina, in the countryside of Espírito Santo, to her current professional perspectives. Throughout our inquiry, we endeavor to elucidate their experiences and to deepen our comprehension of the intricate interaction between Population Geography and Demography. While these fields share interfaces, they also exhibit clear-cut distinctions.

14It is important to emphasize the significance of context, both temporal and spatial, in shaping trajectories and influencing human experience during the process of knowledge generation and scientific production. The notes highlighted by the professor emphasize that these elements, which are crucial in population studies, also influence our paths in ways that may not always be obvious but are worthy of consideration.

15This interview offers an excellent opportunity for reflection through the life story of a competent and beloved professional in the spaces of the Federal University of Espirito Santo and the Brazilian Association of Population Studies.

Interview with professor Aurélia Hermínia Castiglioni

Ednelson Mariano Dota and team (EMDe) – Professor Aurélia, we sincerely appreciate your readiness to participate in this interview and discuss your experiences as an educator and researcher. Thank you for your willingness to share insights into your distinguished career. In a geohistorical context, how was your childhood in Colatina, in the state of Espírito Santo?

Aurélia Hermínia Castiglioni (AHC) – My family’s history in Brazil begins in the 1890s when the families of my great-grandparents migrated from northern Italy and established themselves in the rural areas of the state. Upon my parents’ marriage, they relocated to Itapina, a village strategically positioned for its access to both river and rail transport. The village flourished primarily due to its involvement in the coffee trade, which served as the cornerstone of the state’s economy. My father worked as an employee in the trade and then opened his own business, a dry and wet shop. Itapina expanded its commercial endeavors by establishing a new store that offered a diverse range of products including fabrics, shoes, and gifts, akin to the multifaceted stores commonly found in rural areas, catering to a broad spectrum of consumer needs. Connections within the community transcended familial confines, weaving into an intricate network that encompassed relatives, friends, and acquaintances.

In Itapina, there were families of Italian and German immigrants who owned small properties, as well as Syrian-Lebanese merchants. Locals often used the source languages in their conversations. During my childhood and adolescence, the environment reflected a predominantly rural society characterized by expansive family structures, which marked the stage of the demographic transition when fertility rates were high. At this time, about eighty percent of the population of Espírito Santo lived in the countryside, where families worked in agriculture focused on coffee cultivation. The towns and villages served as hubs of commerce and gathering places for the families of small landowners and settlers residing in the vicinity. The village bustled with activity, particularly on Saturdays and Sundays, witnessing a robust influx of rural residents for weekly shopping, religious observances, social gatherings, auctions, and recreational games. Today, this environment feels almost surreal to me. The traits that were once widespread across the interior of the state have vanished, erased by significant transformations in Espírito Santo during the latter half of the twentieth century. These changes stemmed from shifts in the socioeconomic structure, marking the transition from a traditional rural society to an urban-industrial one.

The influences of the family model and the context of origin are fundamental aspects of my upbringing and have shaped my decisions. I am the second of ten children my parents had, nine girls and one boy. The traditional education imparted by my immigrant family and the broader community rested upon the pillars of family, labor, and dedication. These enduring values have remained steadfast guides throughout my life journey.

The following is Figure 1, referring to a photograph of the house and members of the Castiglioni family.

I feel privileged by the priority my parents set concerning the instruction of their children. The children of immigrants exerted tremendous effort to afford their descendants educational opportunities that they had been deprived of, prioritizing education as their main goal.

High school education was typically provided in private schools, primarily run by religious congregations, with separate boarding systems for boys and girls. In Itapina, only primary schooling was available, prompting me to depart at a young age to attend the gymnasium at Nossa Senhora do Carmo School, situated in Aimorés, Minas Gerais. This institution, overseen by Carmelite Nuns, boasted a longstanding tradition in education. Boarding school life was characterized by a structured environment for children, fostering not only academic knowledge but also discipline and organizational skills.

During my time in Aimorés, I completed primary school and pursued a teaching degree, the sole opportunity accessible to women seeking advanced education at that time. This trajectory predetermined my career path. Driven by both a sense of vocation and no alternatives, I could scarcely envision myself pursuing a different professional field.

EMDe – What prompted your decision to pursue Geography and eventually specialize in Demography? We would like to hear about your professional career.

AHC – My relationship with Geography comes from the beginning of my career. Shortly after completing my Teaching Course, I started teaching roles, initially as a primary educator and later as a geography instructor at the Aimorés gymnasium. At that time, opportunities to attend higher education were strongly concentrated in Vitória, at the Federal University of Espírito Santo, which was the only university in the state for many decades. Since the mid-1960s, Cachoeiro de Itapemirim and Colatina started offering undergraduate courses. For those residing and working in the interior of the state and adjacent areas of neighboring states, the opening of these few courses represented a valuable opportunity to continue their studies. This is how I aligned my teaching responsibilities in Itapina with the Geography Course provided at the Faculty of Philosophy, Sciences, and Languages in Colatina.

In 1977 I started teaching at UFES. Few professors at the university had postgraduate degrees, but they were completely dedicated and very committed to their teaching responsibilities. In this context, I would like to highlight a striking example that I keep from this time, of Prof. Lúcia Alves Corrêa, for the tireless and unrestricted dedication to the activities of the Department of Geography, for the professionalism and seriousness in the conduct of her professional life, for the necessary rigor, but, above all, for the respect and attention to the students.

At the end of the 1970s, the implementation of the teacher training program began. There was still no Dean of Research and Graduate Studies, only a planning sector. At UCL, the doctoral student participated in the activities of the department, and had good conditions to develop the work, which included excellent technical support. During that period, significant resources and extensive support were invested in this area. From this context, there was a significant increase in the number of master’s and doctoral degree holders, laying the foundation for the advancement of research and postgraduate studies.

Concerning the choice of my qualification, population studies appealed to me. This is since they are allowed to move between several fields, apply statistical methods to the human and social areas, and analyze the facts by integrating qualitative and quantitative data.

EMDe – Your master’s and doctoral degrees were held in Belgium. Why Belgium? Tell us a brief account of your life and research during this period. Did you consider not returning to Brazil?

AHC – The qualification of teachers has been one of the main objectives of federal higher education institutions since the seventies. In 1978, Ufes had 15.8% of professors with a stricto sensu graduate level. It was necessary to train and qualify human resources to ensure the improvement of teaching, as well as the expansion of graduate studies and research. Encouraged by the Department of Geography, I researched the possibilities of courses in the field of population studies. I was accepted into the Master’s Degree in Demography at the Catholic University of Louvain (UCL), the oldest educational institution in Belgium, established in 1425.

The UCL master’s degree program was structured into two levels. The first year, known as Diplôme en Démographie, is designed to provide technical training for demographers, preparing them to work in the production and analysis of population data. This course trained human resources to work in developing countries, particularly in African nations, many of which lacked data systems and census-taking experience.

Figure 2 below illustrates her postgraduate period.

Below is Figure 3, a cartographic exemplification of the migratory flows realized by Professor Aurélia.

According to theoretical principles, migration is viewed as an investment entailing costs yet yielding benefits, which are more significant the farther the distance traveled during the displacement. The gains from my international migration for the study were significant. In addition to receiving training and fostering academic development, I had the chance to reside in a foreign country and participate in the exchange of ideas and experiences with people from varied backgrounds and cultures, which were plentiful in Louvain. But costs are also a part of the experience. Living in another society requires learning, integration, acceptance of differences. Navigating foreign language study and adapting to European education systems require consistent daily practice. The costs included the lack of the family and social environment of the region of origin.

For the second time in my life, I cherished the privilege of professional training afforded to me by both my country and UFES. My tenure at the University of Louvain was an unparalleled and indelible experience. My demography academic training unfolded within a vibrant scientific milieu, characterized by distinguished demography scholars and a diverse cohort of students from varied cultural and disciplinary backgrounds. During my tenure at UCL, I underwent significant professional development while concurrently enjoying a rich cultural and interpersonal journey.

The culmination of my doctoral studies marked a pivotal moment in my academic journey. The conclusion of this significant phase in my training heralded the emergence of new pathways in my professional trajectory, delineating the roles I would subsequently undertake.

I was invited to work on research projects at UCL. While I deeply valued my time at Louvain and the relationships cultivated therein, my commitment as a professor at UFES entailed providing constructive feedback on academic endeavors, even amidst transitioning to postgraduate studies, all while prioritizing cherished family connections.

Figure 4 depicts the public defense day of the teacher’s thesis.

EMDe – In the aftermath, were there visible disparities between the methodologies employed in surveys and the practices of Demography between abroad and Brazil?

AHC – When I returned, the number of demographers working in the country was low. Demography training was offered at Federal University of Minas Gerais (UFMG) and then at University of Campinas (Unicamp). The teaching staff in these programs primarily comprised educators trained abroad, and the research and overall work applied the knowledge gained from these institutions. The field witnessed a substantial increase in both the number of researchers and educators, as well as in scientific output, over the ensuing decades. This expansion was bolstered by the synergistic impact of domestic training programs, which facilitated the education of a growing cohort of postgraduate students in the discipline.

EMDe – What were your greatest joys and regrets about your professional career? Which work or action do you consider the most relevant in your career?

AHC – It was an important period of teaching and learning. I view the relationships with my students and the oversight of their development and accomplishments as the most significant rewards of my teaching career. This becomes particularly significant with mentees, as closer relationships tend to develop with them. I am very proud of the work done by each of them.

Figure 5 depicts Teacher Aurélia with her mentees.

In my professional life, there were two occasions I wish I could have experienced but did not. I regret not being able to participate in the project on migration and urbanization led by Professor Marc Termote of the Demography Course at the University of Montreal, as I was invited to take over as Pro-Rector of Graduate Studies at the time. The second was not pursuing a postdoctoral position at the Institut National d’Études Démographiques (INED) in France.

During the research process, researchers may encounter unexpected facts that offer intriguing leads for future investigations. Information found in the data collection of Italian immigrants, conducted through documents from the Public Archives of Espírito Santo, revealed the presence of a migratory flow of immigrants from San Marino. This lesser-known immigration phenomenon is often mistaken for Italian immigration, despite not being documented in the papers.

Immigrants who moved to Espírito Santo in a brief period of nine months in 1895/1896 accounted for 4.9% of the population of the small Republic of San Marino. In Espírito Santo, these immigrants settled in an area encompassing Muqui, Mimoso do Sul, and Cachoeiro de Itapemirim, where the majority of San Marinese descendants who migrated to Brazil now reside. Over time, the descendants of these immigrants, who came from a republic situated between Italian regions and spoke the Italian language, lost touch with their roots and began to identify themselves as of Italian origin.

EMDe – The transition from the 1970s to the 1980s in Brazil marked a paradigm shift that greatly influenced quantitative studies and, consequently, population studies in Geography. How did you experience this transition and face any prejudices for adopting a quantitative perspective in Brazilian Geography? Did the mentoring of students majoring in Statistics and History in the 1990s, rather than Geography, also mirror this reality?

AHC – After completing my postgraduate course, I enrolled in relevant subjects offered by the Department of Geography, such as Research Methodology and Population Geography for Geography, Economic Demography for Economics, and Demography for History. For several years, I taught the subject of Demography, which was offered by the Department of Statistics. During this period, I supervised scientific initiation projects and monographs for students in Geography and Statistics courses. One challenge I encountered was the limited bibliographic production in Population Geography compared to other fields of Geography. While classical theoretical content was available, the updating of theoretical frameworks and population dynamics did not keep pace with the evolving nature of the field, especially before online data and resources became accessible. Over time, resistance to quantitative methods has decreased as these topics have been incorporated into Geography student training and by the growing recognition of the importance of combining quantitative and qualitative approaches for research activities, particularly for the development of mandatory monographs.

EMDe – You were one of the collaborators in the creation of the Graduate Program in Geography at Federal University of Espírito Santo (UFES). How was the process and the situation? Were there plans for targeting specific spaces for Demography studies at UFES?

AHC – In Geography, the establishment of postgraduate programs had long been the aspiration of graduated professors dedicated to enhancing and broadening the research and teaching activities of the field. But for issues stemming from the history of the course, we have long been on the periphery of this level of education.

In the 1990s, two factors contributed to slowing down growth and enhancing course quality. One of the events was the rush for retirement that occurred nationwide, driven by professors’ uncertainty about temporary measures. The Department of Geography, like all universities, experienced a loss of human resources through the departure of qualified graduates. Unfortunately, these positions were not filled with personnel of equivalent qualifications due to the limited number of available positions. This was compounded by the lack of appeal that the Geography course at UFES had for skilled professionals in the field, who often favored more prestigious institutions. Another factor was the division of the teaching staff for the training of Geography, Ecology, and Natural Resources courses. The Department of Geography had a minimal number of professors, most of whom did not have a postgraduate degree.

In 2007, we were finally able to meet the necessary conditions and established the Graduate Program in Geography, which commenced in March 2008. The professors of the course, who were very motivated by the project, actively participated in the activities for planning and implementing the course, which was quickly approved by CAPES. In a short period, the Doctorate in Geography was established in 2014, launched in 2015, and currently has 46 doctoral candidates. As for the establishment of a Demographics center or course, we were unable to proceed with this project due to a lack of available positions to attract qualified personnel in the field. We were able to establish partnerships and activities through international agreements and with professors from other departments of UFES and other institutions. One notable collaboration was with the Prenata Network Program – Programme de Recherche et d’Enseignement en Statistique Appliquée, organized by the Laboratoire de Méthodologie du Traitement des Données at the Free University of Brussels. This program involved several European and South American universities. Additionally, we engaged in a Scientific Cooperation Agreement between the Federal University of Espírito Santo (UFES) and the Università Degli Studi di Torino (UST) to study Italian immigration in Espírito Santo.

EMDe – How do you understand the relationship between Geography and Demography?

AHC – Population Geography and Demography encompass population studies, integrating various fields of knowledge. Population Geography and Demography share a common focus on studying population levels, composition, evolution, conditions, and consequences Demography offers specific methodologies for measuring and analyzing demographic phenomena, supporting the study of population dynamics’ dimensions, structure, components, and scenario projections Population Geography, on the other hand, contributes significantly to analyzing the composition, evolution, and spatial configuration of population phenomena. The theoretical and empirical contributions of both disciplines offer unique insights and complement each other, enhancing the understanding and analysis of the multidimensional aspects of population studies. This interaction is crucial for identifying areas of interest within Geography’s broad spectrum of topics.

EMDe – As a retired professor of undergraduate courses at UFES, but working in the Graduate Program in Geography, what has changed with professional performance? What are you researching and dedicating your time to?

AHC – The performance in the undergraduate course allowed me to participate in the basic training of students who were at the beginning of the course and were very motivated. I miss this interaction because it is at this stage that many students identify with areas of interest in the wide spectrum of areas topics in the Geography course. The mentoring relationship with many of my students originated at this stage. I worked in graduate studies guiding and conducting research on migration, urbanization, Italian immigration, transition processes, population aging, and development indicators.

EMDe – What are your perspectives on Population Geography and Demography for the upcoming decades? What are the topics that deserve attention?

AHC – Among the numerous themes, we highlight the trends and socioeconomic consequences of changes in the demographic structure. These changes are related to the reduction of the representation of young groups and the accentuation of aging, which is the main demographic change in progress. This shift has growing impacts on various sectors of society. International migration from poorer regions to more developed areas is another crucial theme in spatial dynamics. The intensification of mobility in major urban centers, its causes, impacts, and triggered conflicts, are also significant aspects to consider.

EMDe – What are your plans in relation to life and research? Are there projects to explore the 2022 Census data? If so, what are the issues that you are planning to address?

AHC – The Census is a privileged moment, eagerly anticipated by professionals in the fields of planning, teaching, and research. They rely on the data to reassess the work done over the past twelve years; a period marked by significant societal changes. This data provides valuable insights for new projects and investigations that will undoubtedly arise from this important source.

In particular, I aim to update my study on the indirect effect of migrant fertility on growth, a topic from my doctoral thesis. The goal is to measure and analyze changes between 1980 and 2022, a period marked by significant transformations in natural and migratory growth components’ levels and behaviors. I am also interested in studying the trends and consequences of population aging.

EMDe – What are the challenges for the new generation of geographers and demographers? What message would you leave for future researchers in Population Geography and Demography?

Figure 6 depicts the photograph at the conclusion of the interview.